MegaKerma / Silent Walk FPS Creator / Silent Walk: RENAISSANCE

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:04 am 
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usually going through graphics engines requires alot of re formatting of files, in other words, alot of the new formats may be lost, or kept, while old formats are lost due to compatibility, but im not entirely sure how it would all work.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:07 am 
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I think he means reformatting of the whole source code for SWR, which would be most likely really since U3D probably uses C++ or something. Definitely worth a look, although it's more ATMO territory really.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:09 am 
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Well I can't see that much change beein required. BMP, TGA, JPG etc are all still vadli formats of textures files, MP3's and Wav's for sound etc. The only thing which may have to change is models from .man buts this is good look:

'Animated Anim8or model files, also with bone influences and skin weights (*.an8)
Animated 3D Studio Max files (*.3ds)
Animated Quake II model files (*.md2)
Animated DirectX model files, also with vertex skinning (*.x)
Animated Milkshape 3D model files, also with vertex skinning (*.ms3d)'

Those are the formats supported by Ultimate 3D plugin. So SWR could be as good if not better than SWR already!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:14 am 
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Whether it happens in the future or not it seems like moving to ultimate 3D would be a no brainer for SWR unless yoyo have something up their sleeves to improve 3d effects. I mean look at what this thing supports!!? It's amazing!

Ultimate 3D

Ultimate 3D is a free 3D engine, which can be used through the game creation software Game Maker. The basic idea is to offer a possibility to make advanced 3D graphics without much effort and knowledge. Ultimate 3D offers a wide range of features, which can lead to impressive effects, but are easy to use anyway. It's vastly superior to the built-in 3D functionality of Game Maker.

Since July 2008 Ultimate 3D for Game Maker is discontinued. The version available here is still based upon Direct3D 8.1. Anyway here is a list of the key-features of Ultimate 3D:

An easy to use and efficient system for the creation of primitive geometry
Support for loading 3D models from:
Animated Anim8or model files, also with bone influences and skin weights (*.an8)
Animated 3D Studio Max files (*.3ds)
Animated Quake II model files (*.md2)
Animated DirectX model files, also with vertex skinning (*.x)
Animated Milkshape 3D model files, also with vertex skinning (*.ms3d)
The Ultimate 3D model file format, which can export any data Ultimate 3D can handle and supports simple encryption (*.u3d)
Vertex tweening, a technique to make frame based animations (as used by *.md2 files) smooth
An easy to use system for lighting and fog
Support for sky spheres and sky cubes
Functions for drawing 2D graphics and text
Fully automatic generation of levels of detail
Functions to manipualte models at runtime
Cel-shading for graphics in comic style
Multi texturing for techniques such as light mapping
Spherical and cubical environment mapping for perfect reflections
A comfortable shader management system for endless effects supply
Support for post screen shaders for even more effects
Parallax mapping and bump mapping (i.e. normal mapped per pixel lighting)
Realtime shadows through shadow volumes
An efficient terrain renderer for large, detailed terrains
A complex particle effects system
Support for multiple cameras (split screen)
Render to texture and render to cube texture functions for reflections, security monitors and post-screen shaders
Math functions for efficient matrix and vector calculations
A portal engine for simple and higly efficient culling
Support for fullscreen antialiasing


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:15 am 
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atmo is blitz, so it cant use u3d, but i do think a blitz/ogre plugin would be good for atmo

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:17 am 
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sounds seriously sexy, lets hope Zoltan looks into it

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:19 am 
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Fatmanpez wrote:
atmo is blitz, so it cant use u3d, but i do think a blitz/ogre plugin would be good for atmo


No one is talking about atmo. this is a Silent Walk forum and thread.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:20 am 
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ynyr wrote:
sounds seriously sexy, lets hope Zoltan looks into it


Exactly, it seems like a no brainer to add this dll, it will basically destroy anything FPSC can produce with such features, this new awesome scripting engine and just generally better design.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:20 am 
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it was in response to berry saying atmo could use u3d

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:23 am 
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Who's Berry? I didn't see him mention anything about atmo.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:24 am 
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yrnr, sorry, iv gotten used to calling him that

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:26 am 
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Oh, he didn't mentioned atmo at all, he said looks good hope zoltan looks into it, and he's clearly referring to SWR since this is the thread for it :P haha

Anyways let's all keep our fingers crossed that Zoltan can look into this as possibility. Don't get me wrong I haven't been this excited for game creation in a long time and SWR is quite possibly one of my favourite tools to use ever. but these kind of features would not only help Zoltan make some money to fund his other projects but also allow us to have so many more tools at our disposal to play with :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:29 am 
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in that case, im sorry if i sound like im trying to hold swr back, this is all just alot at once, feels like zoltan is really giving alot to us :)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:41 am 
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He sure is, the fact he's bringing SW back slowly is amazing. If he adds this kind of support to it he could easily maske money to cover his time and allow to him to fund other projects it's a no brainer to me. I'm not sure how long it would take to convert but apparently ultimate 3d isn't too hard to work with and SW only uses game makers inbuild 3d... I guess we'll have to wait and see what he has to say about it!

Hell he could always blow us away and use the UNITY engine. See what happens i guess. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:50 am 
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I think the reason Zoltan can actually update SWR so frequently is because the ease of use of GML. SWR could not be converted to another engine, he'd have to start from scratch which I think he's essentially doing for ATMO.

In SWR case I think graphical updates aren't really going to happen since of the actual game maker 3D support. What we do have to hope for is increased functionality for things like collisions etc. Smooth shading would make a massive difference too, and this may soon be possible for SWR as yoyo are looking into it.

Shadows would be a nice touch - and maybe not too hard to implant.
Another suggestion would be an IRON SIGHTS view with the use of RMB for SWR.


...also, indeed, my name should be changed to Berry - stops confusion xD Mods, feel free too ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:52 am 
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True, i'd rather it stay in game maker but utilizing the amazing features of ultimate 3d dll would take this engine into amazing new places.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:57 am 
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u3d was probably made in gm from scratch, which means anything is possible, maybe even using the swr built in script functions, we can program some of u3d's features in our selves, light/normal maps sound like something we could write into either the level, light, or texture scripts.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:58 am 
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We'll have to wait and see what Zoltan says I guess. He'll know what can be done if anything :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Well, most likely I won't upgrade SWR to use an external 3D engine. This is not because I don't want to or it is impossible, but based on the experiences I've learnt in the past years, there are really a few USABLE 3D engine around. Actually I didn't test U3D, but I've tested many others. The truth is that only a very few of them is really designed to be a game engine. Most of them were born because of someone's programming tests (and later it become an 'engine').

The main problem with them is important features are missing or buggy. In the last years I started ATMO from scratch several times, when I though I found the real 3D engine, but believe me, I ALWAYS found something, that made me mad because of a stupid bug or missing feature.

When you create your Game Creator using an external engine, you want to develop it using the proper tools without any anomaly, you create it just for fun. (If I want problems I go to work to my workplace. :) )

So in short I found Game Maker a relatively stable and well supported (function-wise) tool with certain limitations, but still a very good base for a maker tool. I know GML and I think SWR is pretty useable comparing to SW1 (or even SW2). The game logic can be extended via scripts, so I see lots of great games created with SWR.

I would stick to pure GML, without using any external engine, because if I used the external DLL, I would use another language also, but then it wouldn't be GM anymore. :)

You guys are so talented and have great creation skills, so I am sure you'll be find workarounds to solve some of the weak parts of SWR.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:23 pm 
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sounds good, We wont disappoint :D

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:04 am 
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A small info about the upcoming new features.

I am still working on the next RC version, but these features already added (not yet released):

- Animated MD2 importer
- New model editor options
- pcx image support
- Separated animation handling for stand, walk, run, attack, hurt, dying and dead actions
- Lots of new game script functions
- New GUI elements and facelifting
- Fully dynamic keyboard and mouse handling (beside of standard controls)

I am still optimizing and testing the new stuff plus I am visiting my parents this weekend, so new version will be available sometime next week.
I am planning to add a packer option as well, so resources will be compressed in the game folder.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:27 am 
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Some great ideas coming along there for sure. the MDL2 format is the quake 2 format right? I've seen quake 3 uses MDL3 for example. Still, it's all good. Don't forget to get some of the suggestions topics in the forum a look for things to add like title screen options like sw2! hehe ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:30 pm 
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The animated .Md2 with separate animation options is something Silent Walk always needed. This is really great to hear. Will Silent Walk be able to handle all these new features, being based on GM and all? I do not really understand Game Maker's 3d capacities, so please forgive me if that seems like a silly question.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:51 pm 
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MD2 animations are like the Marzipan .man format, frame by frame models. You can however create md2 animations with other great modellers more easily than Marzipan (Fragmotion for example).

The MD2 animation handling is already added, so when you import an MD2 model it is automatically converted to .man format, since SWR is handling .man animations. In the Enemy and Monster properties form (will be introduced in the next version) you can set the animation frames just like in SW2.

The only limitation is that you cannot create custom sequences. There are the predefined sequences (stand, walk, run, attack, hurt, die, dead) but no user defined animations can be created so even if your original MD2 model contains other sequences (jump, crouch, etc) they cannot be used.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:18 pm 
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Sounds good, certainly a loy better than having the more blocky awkward looking movements in standard models. Still amazing work and allowing much better abaility for using 3d models :)

Looking forward to toying about with the new version, I expect it has some more awesome features added in too :D


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:47 am 
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GOOD TO HEAR ABOUT MD2 format. as long as there is no animation frame cap like in marzipan. i can convert my models that i made for SW2.... this is a big step foward for swr :D

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:41 pm 
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Is this stability now?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Yes the engine is stable and more than usable. However it's still in it what you could call 'beta' with new features being added with new releases. You can still use this engine to create a smal game or get used to how it works though.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:30 pm 
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Added the last RC version. No new features are planned to be added in the short term (maybe in the future).
I would really release it as a final product very soon.

Added the MD2 import and a few changes and bugfixes, so some new errors might come out due to the brand new features.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:14 pm 
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sounds good, will get testing tonight

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